I’m looking at our place.

Conversations. Ballinasloe, Co Galway, Ireland, April 2004


Carmel Nulty. Where was this picture taken?

Paul Nulty. New Market Green in Eltham.

It looks so nice.

How old were you when you moved to London.

I was about thirty five or thirty six.

It must have been a brave thing to do?

Not at all, the bravest thing to do was to come back to Ireland now.
It wasn’t brave to move to London then.
I didn’t settle as well this time, no.
Everything fell into place so well, I mean we were very homesick, except you, you didn’t realise it. We were very homesick ken and I. We used to sit beside people who had Irish accents, just to listen to the accents.

We had such a busy life and things were going well for us. When my marriage broke up I had to pay the bills, sell two houses and there was hardly any money left. There was no money to buy a new house, there was very little money left and I was so happy I was free as well. That was the main reason why we left. The other reason was that people that were separated at that time, were looked down upon, not a lot of people were divorced or separated at that time in Ireland.

That is what?

Twenty six years ago.
You just weren’t accepted really.

Was it different in London?

It was different in London, yeah, but in some cases it wasn’t. I remember when you and Ken were going to serve mass. Do you remember, in Eltham?

Oh yeah the priest?

He wasn’t a priest, he was just a lay man and he said “and where is the good man himself”? Meaning, you know, and I said “well he is in Ireland”. End of story I didn’t carry on, he didn’t know what to say then. I said “yeh he is in Ireland”.
Maybe in the catholic religion it wasn’t accepted that good in England either, at that time.


When did Ken start to change his accent, how soon?

Very quickly, I was surprised at how quickly, and you went to nursery school and you more or less started off with a little bit of the English accent. I notice that you both have a little bit of a different English accent and I don’t know you went to the same schools.

Did you know then that it would be temporary and that London was for a period of time and we would eventually go back to Ireland again?

Yeah, well that did happen as well, we did go back to Ireland after a year and a half.
Yeah, yeah all the time it was temporary, until about when you started to go to secondary school. We were well settled in then. I wasn’t too sure any more after that.
We lived in a place called Woolwich when we went over and that was alright. It was friendly. A market town it was quiet nice. There was a good few Irish people there so it was all right really. The place we were living was only temporary, so we then moved to Eltham.

We were living in a really nice bungalow there in a nice area. The bungalow that we were living in, well, they were building a new road way and people had to move their houses. So we had to leave it. It was lovely wasn’t it? It was a lovely area, it was really nice, and it was just beside a park. After Woolwich, Woolwich was a real tough place but nice. We moved to middle Park Avenue, Gregory Crescent and that was a council estate. It was a bit…at the time we moved it wasn’t too bad but it got a bit rough didn’t it?

Yeah, I hated it.

We did settle in it but it was always that we didn’t want to be living there and every six months we thought we were going to move away. I made lots of attempts to move away, to find another place and even to buy another place but it didn’t work out. Then eventually we got the chance to buy that place and we were able to make a profit, financially we did well to live there but otherwise we didn’t.

How long were we living there?

Fourteen years. You were very young I don’t think you would have understood yeah I did talk to Ken about it or you if you were listening. Every thought I had I said to you both. I don’t know, when you look back on it, because you were young, you are not too sure. It was all an adventure for you. Having cousins over in London made an awful difference. If we had no relations over there it would be completely different, but because you had cousins over there you were looking forward to being with them and they were around your age group it was a holiday in the beginning for you.
When we went to live with Bessie that was from home to home, it wasn’t that we were going somewhere that we were going to be amongst strangers. That is why we settled in so well. We were lucky we met nice people. Do you remember Mrs Mc Mullen?

Oh yeah.

I got her telephone number and called, I don’t know who the person was, I got an address, some government person, and later I got a phone call. I said we are looking for a place to live and I have two children. The normal thing that would happen in Ireland they would put the phone down, they wouldn’t even offer a thing. He said, “I know somebody that might get you a place” and he said because you are Irish you are in with a good chance and that was a nice phone call to get.

Was he Irish?

No, he wasn’t, he was English, but he said to me because you’re Irish you are in with a good chance. He said because the lady is Irish. That was Mrs mc Mullen and he said I will give you her phone number and he did. I remember ringing her and thought well she is going to say no. When I phoned her she said, oh yes can you come and see me such a date at such a time .After that it was really good, she said I have a place in mind for you, a little house. It was so good; it was so hard to get a place. They just could not find a place to live. When we got this place to live I started working voluntary for this housing people. Do you remember that?

Collecting rent?

I collected the rent and got involved voluntary, from day one because I thought they were doing such good work that I would help other people.
Do you remember?

I do, there was a lot of other Irish people.

There was a lot of Irish people and Indian.
People that emigrated mostly were homeless, people that wanted to work. They were waiting for a council house. There was a waiting list, local government. When you came straight into the country local government wouldn’t give you anywhere to live. You had to go on a waiting list.

You met a lot of people.

Yeah I did, I made new friends very quickly because you were at school for a start. You meet parents you meet people and then we went to church and we met a lot of Irish people. We got involved in lot of social activities in the church like dancing, Irish dancing. Very quickly we did. I went to college part time and got to know lots of friends and they are still friends of mine today. I went to college shortly after; I wasn’t long in London when I went to college part time. At that time I did typing, English, social work. I took up different classes. I did O level English an then I went on to do a community care course, full time and then I went on to do the NNEB. That was a little bit later when I went to college full time. I worked for a company called standard Telephone; they were a very good company. I made a lot of friends through that job as well, didn’t I? Its seems it was the right time. We had good friends. We happened to meet good people over there, I think we were lucky.

Otherwise we wouldn’t have stayed as long would we?

No we wouldn’t have stayed as long.

Were you worried sometimes that you thought you might have made the wrong decision?

No, no, not at all, no I knew I made the right decision.

But you always told us you were going to move back as soon as we finished school.

I did always say that but when you started going to secondary school I realised that that wouldn’t happen so quickly because I wanted you to have a good education, so I didn’t want to break that. You start secondary school, you go over to Ireland, you may not want to continue your education, and then when you come back to Ireland you have to start to learn Gaelic. Ken kind of had a problem with that when we came back for six months.

I’m looking at our place. When do you take that photograph?

About a year ago.

That makes me very sad, look at the bin, number 71
Is there somebody looking out the window there?

No, it’s a trophy in the downstairs window. Why does it make you sad now? You were dying to leave it.

Well I don’t think you realise, you are living somewhere for so long.

I know, I know, I’m wondering why it makes you sad. It makes me a little bit sad but I’m more glad.

I suppose I’m glad but I’m sad.

Yeah you can have the two of them.
I remember when we first moved to London our cousins were there. I remember getting a taxi.

Yeah that’s it yeah.

When we arrived. It must have been the first time we arrived.

It was, yeah.

It was night time and we must have got off the ferry.

Yeah, we did, up in London.

The ferry across from to Hollyhead in Wales and then the train to Euston and then we got a
black taxi down to Bessies place in South East London. I’d never been in a black taxi before.

You were never in South east London before either

I never forget that.

That is why you remember it, I went along black taxis and they didn’t want to go to Charlton it was very far away. This was where my sister lived. We didn’t realise that it wasn’t that far away but they didn’t want to do that journey. He said no it is too far and I said is it that far and he said it is about ten miles and I thought that’s not too far really, it’s only about ten to fifteen mile. A few of them said no .They would make more money doing shorter journeys I suppose. The traffic and everything, it was in the evening about six O’clock. By the time we would get there it was getting dark I suppose. It was late September.

I remember driving through the centre of London and all the lights and the size of the buildings, I suppose because I was very small but I remember it being very strange.

Yeah, well, I was in London before so, I wasn’t.

Were you? before that?

Yeah I worked in London for about four months one time, a crowd of us went over.

Really?

When I was twenty one.

I didn’t know that.

I said we are going to Charlton. He said “geh in mate,” “geh in mate” real funny.
I said do you know where Charlton is when I was in the cab, I thought oh God all the rest of them didn’t know. He said it’s only down the road really, I’ll find it.
I was so happy when he said that, you know? I said they were all probably wanting to go for their tea, they probably didn’t want to go to Charlton. They wanted short journeys.
I remember looking at the A to Z, he stopped. He was real nice, he was alright.
Sure Charlton, people get cabs to Charlton all the time. I remember when we came to it we saw Michael and Susan on bicycles.
Do you remember that?

Yeah, it was a bit homely because we knew them. Well I didn’t know them that well before that.

Is this in?

That is the back of Eltham Palace.

Gosh,
Is it?
I thought it was when we were on holidays in Banaher.
When did you take that?

I guess that is about a year ago.

Of course, look at the houses.
What angle is that taken from?

That is down the road, its not new Market Green or Gregory. It’s further down from it, down towards the Yorkshire Grey on the right.

Oh yeah.

They are very English style of houses.

Mmmm

How long a time is it since you left London?

It must be six weeks is it? It was about the second or third of March. Is that right?

You were sad leaving the house?

Sad leaving the house? Well yeah anyone would be sad leaving, it was a good thing to be leaving really you know, but it was sad at the same time.
Well I was planning for a couple of years, When I sold the house in August then I started planning, really started seriously planning. It was only a dream before then I suppose.

It was almost harder moving back. A very big part of my life was in London, when you think about it, nearly thirty years. I had a lot of experiences in London life experiences as well and changed a whole career and did work that I always wanted to do. I was in a job I liked a lot. The hardest part I think was leaving the job and it still effects me. If I had the job here everything would be perfect.
I wanted to come back here, is because it’s home and always wanted to come back. The main reason is you and ken moved over here, then you decided to move to Rotterdam.
Where was that picture taken it is absolutely awful, God almighty, why do you take such close ups, cracks in my face.

It’s on a train from Mottingham to Charing Cross; I think it’s about a year ago.

Where is this here, the bottom of Eltham High St?

Do you feel more English?

I do feel different than other Irish people, I definitely do, and I can’t understand it, sometimes like a fish out of water.
I suppose that I do really. I don’t seem to fit in now, here, so well, I don’t know why.
You do take some terrible bad pictures sometimes; you shouldn’t take close up pictures of an old person. The fire place is nice isn’t it?
Wouldn’t you think you would have more pride? Have your mother looking good than making bad photos. It’s bad it couldn’t be any worse.

Was that all the packing?
When you take close ups of me it shows all my oldness, you shouldn’t do things like that to your mother.
God I’m so stressed looking, God Paul.
I’ll just hide in my face.
Every time I see it, it looks so nice compared to here. Can you believe it?
Where was that taken I look so stressed out, Christ.
That’s in the bathroom, first aid, ah Lord it makes me so sad, ah look at me poor oul shed.
That’s in the dinning room I recognise the curtains,
Oh God I can’t even look at them.
Oh no.
All the packaging
You see the things that we have here doesn’t go with here does it.
You know you buy things for a place.
We had to put reference numbers on all the furniture; it’s on some of it still.
Ah lord.
I suppose because it was an old place and this is new it had a bit of character.
There’s the little kitchen, me old garden and the old shed, on the phone as usual. BT, London. Oh lord my nose looks awful. I had enough there. I must have said let me go to sleep, I have to go to work in the morning. I have to get up at half-five.
What did you do? Did you take the picture on the floor there?
That’s everything packed there, the guitar and everything. We were leaving on a jet plane. Look at Iceland, look at the Irish post. I can’t believe that.
I had to leave that table cloth for the women, the plastic one with the flowers on it.
That’s at the station when you were leaving.
It looks as if I was leaving, where did you take that? Before you got on the train?
It’s good you took them though, I can see it now.
How are you going to use them now?













Ballinasloe, Co Galway, Ireland, July 2004

Paul Nulty: What are the differences in the Irish in London and the Irish here?

Carmel Nulty: Most Irish people in London are nice, they are down to earth and natural, then of course you will get the ones that are denying that they are Irish, they don’t want to be reminded that they are Irish, but they are in the minority. If you meet Irish people over in London or in England they are much nicer than they are here, they are so happy to speak to an Irish person.
I don’t feel as Irish when I am having a conversation with most people here, a lot of people you are having a conversation with will always come up about all ‘those’ people ‘here’. Ireland has changed, buildings has changed, Athlone, for instance was a small country town its turned into almost a city, it has prospered very well, When you say to someone. “Athlone, you wouldn’t know it, it has changed so much”. They will always say to you “yeh all those foreigners” or words to that effect. Then you answer them back in a different way and they are defending and then you realise that you are not Irish. I have moved on and I am looking at it different than they are, it’s all new to them that there are different people living in this country. People from all over the world are coming on holiday in Ireland, living in Ireland, studying in Ireland, they should be proud of it. But they are all, kind of calling them asylum seekers and they are getting money when they shouldn’t be getting money. A lot of people here need to be educated for that. That makes me feel, not Irish and it makes me feel, I don’t want to be here listening to that.

Is that one of the biggest reasons?

Its one fairly good reason, The other reason is they know that I am different even though my accent is the same but they know by my actions and what I do, especially around here, for instance that I go on a bicycle at my age and ride down to the shops. I am different, because everybody here has a car and why haven’t I a car?

Would it be different if you were in the city instead of the countryside?

Yeah, I would be one of many, if I was in the city, nobody would think for a minute. I think that I am not accepted in the countryside as well. I feel that I would settle more if people were accepting me more but people are not accepting me. They are looking at me like the way they were looking at the lady at mass on Sunday. The black women at mass nobody would sit beside her or answer her when she asked questions, they look at her then look at me and looking at her, and you would think it was a dog or something that walked in.
I felt what she was, just because I wore an anorak to mass and I wasn’t dressed appropriately for church, and another time I had a shopping bag, you know in London people would do their shopping on the way to mass and they would think nothing of bringing shopping onto the church. But here they will come with hand bag and gloves and all dressed up.

What would it be like down in Drumraney?

I would expect it in Drumraney, but I would be accepted more there in another way because everybody there knows me and went to school with me. Like Mary Kerrigan she sent word that she would love to see me. They would know me there so they would accept me more, they would know my history, but people are frightened because they don’t know. I don’t know whether they are a bit ignorant and they are frightened as well, frightened of change, of unknowing. People from different cultures they are more frightened of them and they kind of look down on them.

What do you think you will do now then?

I am thinking about doing lots of things, it’s hard to decide. I think I might have to go back to a city and work because I am not ready to sit back and retire yet. I am not ready for that. I might move to Dublin and live in Dublin or else I might move back to London and work temporary. Of course I didn’t think about it enough myself. I think living here I would need a car to get to town especially to get to work in Athlone, because I don’t think there is any work in Ballinasloe. There doesn’t seem to be any work available for anybody. Most of the people living here go to work in Athlone or Galway. That means that the only jobs that would be here are in shops and you can see when you go shopping in Ballinasloe there is not many people in the shops.

Do you know anyone else that came back after living in England?

I don’t know I have heard of people’s friends who came back. Nora had a friend who came back, she wasn’t very long back, she was maybe a year back and she died, Nora was really surprised. I’ve read letters in the Irish post. People were saying that they came back and never regretted it. Things worked out well. There was also letters on the Irish Post saying some family came back to some part of the West of Ireland or Tipperary or some part like that, I forget which. They said it was lovely and people were friendly but there were an awful lot of drawbacks as well. Their children were not happy in school. Things that they didn’t look into, that were not available. Certain entertainment for the children especially, it wasn’t there and they missed their friends but they were going to stick it out. They wrote his letter to the paper advising people that were thinking of coming back to live in Ireland to think about all aspects when coming, social and culture.

But it is different in different parts of the country isn’t, If you moved to Dublin instead of Conemmara you wouldn’t have such a massive difference from England?

Yeah, but the whole system of Ireland is different, although it has moved on in one way, in Technology it has moved on. In another way you find Irish people very easy going and not giving information they should and not telling you everything and advising you in the right way. That is still there. Even a telephone call, you don’t get efficient advice that you ask for.
Do you notice that?

Yeah, I notice that, it’s not as bureaucratic as England

Not at all, that’s a good part of it, it’s good and bad but it’s frustrating because you never get the full information.
It’s nice that they are real friendly, you go in and they say “howya doin, it’s a nice day”. Lovely, they make you feel very at home, but they don’t give you the information, you have to ask for it and if you don’t ask it you don’t get it. I phoned plenty of people, even to get connected with the electricity and the telephone and I told my story. My name is so and so and I have come to live here in Ireland. I told them I have just bought a house. “Is it your own house or is it rented, oh it must be rented, who are you rented off” this is what I got, “no you can’t have the phone because the last man there didn’t pay his bill so will you pay his bill. The only way you are going to get the phone if you pay his bill, I’m telling you. You pay his bill, and then we’ll put the phone on”. They was almost saying they were dong me a favour, you pay their last customer that lived here, his bill.
I rang the unemployment place. I rang many different places to find out information either about getting work or entitlements, preferably getting work. I told everything about my self, when I worked in Ireland last, the years I lived in England. When I came back and that I am now living in Ballinasloe, every detail. The man on the other end of the phone couldn’t give me any information. I said “can I go in and sign on? Are their any jobs available?” “How do I go about it?” I told him everything about how much money I was earning and how much pension I had, every detail. He said to me. “I don’t know, you cant, you don’t want to work, and “You have to wait for your old age pension”. And I did ring him up to ask if there was work available and could I go in and put my name down. That’s how he answered me. So of course I lost confidence then.

Ballinasloe, Co Galway, Ireland, October 2004

Carmel Nulty: Ah Lord, It’s my face. Look at me hair you should have let me comb it.
The handbag doesn’t suit at all out there.
That is outrageous

Paul Nulty: Why?

I’m glad I covered my face there, that your jumper (I’m wearing) it’s nice.
That one now, is not too bad; you see the red suits me.
Look at all the houses.
Where is that?

Gregory Crescent.
It’s the hall way

Oh yeah

That’s Ken’s room

I like that picture coming up in it, that’s the Angelus on the wall. It looks like a real good picture and its not. Where is this?
Oh I didn’t see this one.
Look at me lovely flower pot and me mop, ah Lord.
Oh Jesus where is this?

That’s just before you moved that is.

Oh, God, I look terrible looking, that’s the bin.
God, I look horrible looking.
Where is that taken?

In Eltham Palace.

Twenty five past one and the hanger on that.
That one is not too bad because it’s taken far away.

Oh you didn’t see that one.
Yeah, I like that one.

Ah Jesus, I think I got old looking since I came here.
If they are (taken) a bit away they re all right, I suppose everyone close up doesn’t look right.
Why are you taking them so close up though?

Some of them are close not all of them; well they are portraits of you.

Was it a windy day or why was my hair like that?
That one is terrible.
Is that the wall in Gregory?
Ah lord. You see I think I am going to go back there again to live, isn’t that terrible.

Back to that house?

Mmmm, I can’t get it out at all, terrible.
Greenwich, where did you take that?

On the road up to Mottingham Station.

In Ballinasloe they think that I am an asylum seeker, well almost, they kind of look at you when you are talking and say to you, “you are not from around here?” They are even treating me as if I am a foreigner, lots of people have said to me “but you are not from the west of Ireland, you are not from Ballinasloe”, they didn’t even say, are you? But you are not. I don’t know what kind of accent I have because I think that if you are from Athlone there is a little division, there is a division though. To some of them not to everyone.




Ballinasloe, Co Galway, Ireland, December 2004

Paul Nulty: These ones are of here inside the house.

Carmel Nulty: The curtains came out nice.
Is that the tree in our back garden?

No its down, as you go down the road towards the shops on the left hand side, did you never see that. You know the way that you can go either behind the house right to the field or the left and that continues down the side of the houses.

Is that not at the back of our house?

No

I don’t know where it is then

What does it look like to you, the area here?

So which house is ours?

It’s on this side here. Could you not tell from the photograph?

No

Why,

They all look the same?

Yeah, that’s what I said yesterday they all look the same.

Is that our house there?

No that’s at the opposite side of the hill

Yeah I was thinking it was.

That’s up to the road on the way,

That’s a face and a half, where was I going there

I think you were showing me what you were going to wear.

That’s a depressing face, if I ever saw one
I’d love to know where I was going there I look as though I am going to meet my death
That’s Hawthorne close just the end of it isn’t it?

Yes

Oh that is when we come up here before we turn the corner
It’s a question mark. It reflects on how I feel.

What’s that?

Because there is no character there or much, no people

That one there, I’m trying to figure out where this is.

That is, if you are going down to the main road, instead on going right behind the houses you go left.
But I don’t see people much around here even when I’m taking photographs.

Left oh I see yeah oh yeah
That’s a bit nicer, it’s a garden, and it’s a bit happier, a little the red flower smiling at you. No people though.

Yeah.

It’s a picture of depression.

Is it why?

It’s real serious.
Ha ha ha
That’s on the way to mass.

What do you think?

It’s all right but my face is very serious, I look very serious since I came to live here.

You don’t look serious all the time but you look serious in my pictures.

Yeah. Maybe you get me at the serious times

Yeah I suppose sometimes you are looking very serious.

I suppose I am.

But people aren’t often taking photographs of each other when they are serious, you don’t make so many serious pictures at home.

Yeah

You are laughing and happy.
I’m not so interested in taking pictures of you laughing, I know you laugh and are happy

I know, but do the other people know that.

Well when I’m taking a picture of you it is only a certain part of you that I am taking a picture of.

It’s all I know is that I should have high heel shoes on me there.
Is their any more?

Have you seen that before?

Is that one taken from here, our garden, you can tell by the amount of daises.

There are those ones there, I like those ones

I like the curtains.

Its all you can see from the inside is the curtains.

You can see the houses across the road
The fire brigade was around here the other night across the road.

Were they, why?

Somebody’s chimney, well the people round here asked me, they don’t know people around here and they are living here six years.
That’s not too bad that one
It’s not as close up and you can see some kind of friendliness and drinking tea and the door is open.
That’s good yeah
Was I home from mass there?
Relieved, I looked, as if they are saying, “hurry up I have no time, I’m going to be late.”

As if you are saying that to me?

Mmm
Can you see it?
That grass needs to be cut.
That’s nice, how did you manage that one, when did you take that?

I’m standing behind the column, in October.
Here.
When I’m taking the picture that’s how I see it, do you see it like that?


I do in most of the pictures; apart from that one I never see it that way.
Does it give a mood of what it’s like here?
The other ones give it a mood of its very quiet and deserted but that one gives it an almost friendly mood for some reason. That bit there. Looking through there, I must look through there in future, that’s nice.

That’s which room now?

The sitting room
It’s very bare isn’t it?
That’s good that one you got the shed in and the cross that has a bit more character to it.

What were you looking at there?

I was looking at you.

But you are not looking at me you are looking to the side of me.

I didn’t want my face too…
That reflects here and the depression of that, shed and the brick wall
Not lived in much. I often thought of that when I was walking along the road looking at old houses and things, maybe if I was living there it would be different.

In the old house in the main street? I’m amazed by it. I think it’s so modern.

Modern?
It’s modern to the fact that the people are modern, you see nobody doing anything. Coming out with and apron on or in the middle of doing something, I can’t explain it. Every thing is so, almost Lego land, so stiff. During the summer there were children playing outside that was the first natural thing. You never see a child running after the mother crying, a women dropping a bag of shopping. You never see anything going on every thing is perfect. Sometimes you see a dog or a cat sometimes. Its even friendly too see the dog running to you. You don’t even see people getting in to their cars or out of them. The cars are there, and nobody ever has a car that is broken down and can’t start it. Nothing like that happens. Everything is perfect.

There are not so many people living in this area, it’s a cul de sac too.

But even the people living in it none of them go walking to the shops. You don’t see them coming back with shopping on a pram.

There is no one walking that’s why.

The only time you see it, is when they are walking around the block all dressed up.
The area here and the small amount of houses looking the same and nothing old and lived in. The houses don’t look lived in. Everything is perfect outside. You hardly ever see anyone in the garden, doing any work or sitting in the garden.
Even in the summer. Not much, I was looking forward to the summer, people washing their cars but no. I never see anybody washing there cars funny that isn’t it. They must get it done in the garage. Remember when we lived in Gregory of a Sunday people washing cars, mending cars, cutting lawns dogs running, children running, things happening.

I suppose it was really alive.

But that should be happening everywhere where people live.

Why is it not happening here because it’s the countryside?

I can’t understand it, I suppose its part of what I feel about it depressed because of it, and you know you kind of take it for granted that it should be happening. Do you know?
At least you got to know the people next door. When I say it is isolated to other people, they say its grand and quiet nobody bothering you up here as if that in Ballinasloe would bother you. I don’t think they would there either.

What happened with that man and women who went back to England?

Yes they were living…... The lady but one (house) told me that they came back, he was originally from Ballinasloe from Crea and they couldn’t settle, they thought everybody was very unfriendly compared to England. They said that the people were more friendly in England and that they just went back. But a lot of people have said that to me in passing, that England was a lot friendlier, I was surprised at them saying it and knowing it, When Ireland is so well known for hospitality and being friendly.

Does that make you feel different about living here that there are other people thinking the same since they moved back to Ireland?

It does make me feel that it’s not just me, because I’m depressed living here that it’s just me not settling or trying hard enough. But that confirms how I feel. I feel the very same as them.

The other people that go back?

Yes, especially if they are from the area, I’m a stranger in the area which makes me more, not knowing people.

Do you think a lot of Irish people that move back find it hard to get on?

I think they probably do except young single people that move back to there own parents housing. Starting off new buying a house or even renting a place would be harder. Finding a job it is a bit…..

It’s even worse than when I went to England first.

Why because the society has changed so much?

Yeah.

It’s more like England now (here) though isn’t it?

It’s even worse than England. They are even more compassionate in England
When we moved to England we met a lot of people that was compassionate, even in public service. Here they are very hard.

What do you mean in terms of getting a job?

Yeah, “you’re not going to work are ya, you can’t work can you?” They couldn’t say that to you in England because of the equal opportunities. They wouldn’t talk to you like that. They have very little training here with there staff. Staff are not informed of how to talk to the public. I think that if they have positions like that they feel superior.

You get that everywhere I think.

You do, but you don’t expect it in a small town in Ireland.





April 2005, Ballinasloe, Co Galway, Ireland

Paul Nulty: Do you feel at home here now, now that you are leaving it?

Carmel Nulty: I don’t feel sad. I regret that I wasted a year here. I feel a little bit sad because the house is nice. But it doesn’t feel like home, no I don’t feel really sad.

Where does it feel like home is now?

I don’t know I’m going to be in no-mans-land for a while. I suppose in a way I feel that London is home.

But before that, did you feel like here was home?

Ireland was home but not here especially.

But not now?

No.

What were you expecting when you came back?

I don’t know what I was s expecting, in a way I was expecting what happened, even though everybody was saying it was great and everything. The back of my mind I knew it would be something of what I had left behind in someway.

You mean that Ireland would have been what you left behind 25 years ago.

In one way for me it would.

In a good way or in a bad way?

In a bad way, that I wouldn’t be offered things, only people patronising me, they were then and they are now.

You weren’t so surprised then?

I probably expected to be a bit better yes.
Because it has come on so well in other areas, socially it’s the same.

What do you mean socially, the way people act?

The way people are, they are even worse now, because you haven’t got a car and you haven’t got a husband. That still is there with the middle age and up. The younger people are much nicer and socially aware if you like. I think if I was a younger person in Ireland I would be a lot better off, because they keep reminding you of your age and that you are old. In London I never felt my age, I suppose in London I was working all the time, I expect now when I go back I will be working part time. I won’t feel as …

Do you think you will visit Ireland much?

Oh I will still visit Ireland the same yes, of course I will. I’ll still feel the same about Ireland. When I go back I will feel that I want to be here for the culture part of Ireland.
There are a lot of things I would like to do for Ireland, I have a lot to offer if they would only look at it.

But you couldn’t here?

Not where I am now; it was never really offered to me, only offered in a very small wage which was undermining my profession.
I am happy that I tried it here, but in another way I have wasted a whole year, not doing anything for anybody. I regret that I didn’t go away on a holiday to some other country other than Ireland. I didn’t learn much by being in Ireland. The only thing that I learned by being in Ireland was going to Cork. I was never in Cork before and I enjoyed going to Milltown Mallaby to the festival. New things like that. They were new to me and I am glad I had done that but I could have done them in two or three weeks rather than spend a whole year being unhappy here.

Do you think it would be different if you lived in Dublin?

I do, in fact I would still consider living in Dublin because I think I could get some kind of part time work or I could easily work voluntary. I am sure that they would recognize what I have to offer in Dublin.

Its a little bit like what the taxi driver was saying the other day, Ballinasloe missed out on everything and it’s a bit of a depression around here.

There is a bit of depression, It almost reminds me of the 70s and 80s when Ireland had a lot of unemployment. It is probably bad luck to come here, this area not like Galway isn’t very up and coming, then people keep telling me that Galway is for young people. When they tell me that, I don’t know whether they are telling me not to go there. I don’t know. I didn’t want to try Galway; I didn’t want to take another chance and buy a house in Galway and sell it again. I just made one mistake and I feel that going back to London is the right thing for me to do now. Maybe in another couple of years I will decide to come back and really retire, I’m not ready to retire yet

Would you retire in Ireland?

I’m not ready to sit back here. There is a lot more that I can do. I regret wasting a year because time is short for me, if I was younger it wouldn’t matter taking a year out. But I didn’t gain anything. A little bit of stress and a little of anger as well. I don’t like to be feeling that, I should be feeling happy.
I’m looking at everything negative maybe a lot of it is my fault because I’m unhappy. Maybe I am seeing it through different eyes. Maybe someone else on see it in a different way.

But you came very optimistic didn’t you?

I did, very optimistic. But when I started using the telephone and started to settle down here, I lost confidence the way people spoke to me and that.
I know the system in London.
But when I started to settle down here it started, even with making phone calls it started. I lost confidence how people spoke to me.

How do you think you will find going back to London and being in an Irish community?

Well the Irish people in England are different. As the saying goes there are two Irelands, as you told me. The Ireland that is here, and the Ireland that is all over the world, in America, Australia and England even in Sweden and Holland. When I was in England I was promoting Irish culture, in my work and even with you and Ken. In my own job for instance I was promoting Irish music and song and story. So I have sold Ireland in England. That is the Ireland through people that you meet that I am talking about, they are different than here, they are more positive about the culture and the religion even. They are more genuine about it.

Because they are not inside of it they are more enthusiastic?

They want to learn the language and everything as I did. I became more interested in the history and the culture of Ireland, the famous play writers of Ireland and most people do.

Since you left Ireland?

Yeah when I was in England, and when I go back I will be the same. I’ll want to know what is happening in the GAA (Gaelic sports) world and so will everyone who is Irish. Most of the Irish people over there would be.

What do you think your father would have said, or of you coming back?

I think he would think the same way as I.

He would be disappointed?

Yeah. If he came back now from the other world he would be disappointed with it, because of what he had done for Ireland. This new Ireland.

To think that he was so Republican.

I am still very Republican, I still am very Irish. I am still. I am not going to let them take it away from me. The new, as they call themselves or whatever ‘Celtic Tiger’ is. I don’t know what it is.

It doesn’t effect how you feel about being Irish?

No, it doesn’t affect me at all; it doesn’t take anything away from me.

Do you ever feel more or less Irish?

I feel Irish all the time.

It doesn’t change?

No, because I hardly consider the people that I am dealing with as Irish. I probably consider the people that are over in England as Irish. If that makes sense, does it?

Why because they act more Irish?

Yeah

What is it to be Irish?

Well they are trying to be American and even how they talk now; there are a lot of slang words that you would hear in England and America. Even the language they speak. But then on the other hand you hear young people on the bus going to Galway, a lot of them have their conversation in Gaelic, Which is a good thing. So I think there is a bit of a mix here. The other good thing about Ireland that I didn’t mention is the Black people and people from different cultures from all over the world working and living here. That is one good thing that wasn’t here when I left. That is a positive thing. I wish the people would accept them more. That is another negative bit where they are not accepting them and being racist. That is a bit off putting. Do you think that?

Yeah, I do.

For instance what happened on the bus with the African women and her children.

Is it the older generation or the younger generation?

That is what I am saying, the older, the middle aged and above, I think younger people are more tolerant, some of them, some of them are brain-washed too. A lot of people are more accepting. Even accepted me, where older people haven’t accepted me yet, here.

What do you mean “accepted”, how do you explain that?

For instance, what are you doing living here? Why Ballinasloe? What are you doing living here? Why did you come back?

Do you think there is resentment because you came back?

I don’t know, maybe, I don’t know. Maybe they like to pity you because you came back, like the poor relation.

What does that mean?

I am poor because I haven’t a car, I think they like that, but maybe because I came home and bought a house here and I am equal to them. That is all they have achieved either is a house, but I have achieved a lot more than that.

Who are you talking about? people around here?

Well people around here and people that know me.

Why, because you went away and got an education?

No, they are not recognising that at all.

They are not recognising that you got your education?

No, they are not recognising that at all, they are even telling me I can go and get a job cleaning, because they are ignoring it and not listening to me.

Some of your friends?

Yeah.